using glue to stop floor squeaks – bad idea!
Question:
Thanks for all the information.
I live in the mountains and it’s quite dry here (25% at times) but the house is 4 yrs old and it just started making noises. I’m afraid its from water (shoes) or the wrong floor cleaner. I talked to a local floor installer and he said to drill a small hole in the board and inject glue that you can buy in a syringe………what do you think of that approach?
Thanx again, I’ll make sure I pass your name around to the suppliers. My brother in law runs a major lumberyard in Salt Lake.
Answer:
Dear Dennis
No, follow my instructions to the letter. I have done all these methods many times with good results. You should NEVER, NEVER, NEVER glue down any part of a nail down floor. The strips need to move seasonally, and the glue (if it even works) will create a dead spot in the floor, which will stop this natural movement. When the floor does gain some moisture during a long cooking session, or unusually damp weather, the boards might swell against this dead spot and buckle.
I only use this injection method for glued down parquet and laminated wood floors. Think about all the dirt and dust under your floor, how is the glue going to sick, and dry in this space ? If he uses a water based glue it may further swell the wood as it dries. Your local guy may be misleading you, have him give some references of successful glue jobs. Be sure to read my article about hiring contractors in the Hardwood Authority section of this site. And please read my floor maintenance article in the Floored News section. You should be re-coating this floor every 2-4 years in this heavy use area.
Oh, and thank you for passing my name around.
As always your Most humble servant, Joseph, the Wood Floor Doctor.
Using Fabulon For A Refinished Oak Hardwood Floor
Question:
What is the best type of varnish or sealer to put on a refinished oak hardwood floor?
Answer:
Dear Randy
Please read my floor maintenance article available in the search box at the top of this web page. It mentions the 5 basic floor finish choices. And there is an article on the Dura Seal 1000 in that section of the site also.
But my choice for now is 3-4 coats of Fabulon Brand Pro Polyurethane Satin Finish, sometimes called heavy duty poly. I just finished coating my own floor with it an hour ago. They don’t have a web site, but here’s their # 800-263-8108. And I did find a supplier’s web site at http://www.whscott.com/fabulon.htm.
Oh, and except for the water based finishes, never use a sealer on hardwood floors, read my lacquer floor fires article, on this subject also available in the search box at the top of this web page.
Using Epoxy Putty To Fill Cracks In Old Plank Floor
Question:
My home was built in 1885. It has 5-inch plank flooring (quite rustic looking). A previous homeowner put wood putty between each plank and it’s now cracking and falling out. My question: How do I prep and finish the floor in the bathroom. It has apparently been wet before and the wood is rotted in places. I’d like to keep the original wood, if possible. Is there any kind of thick, self-leveling sealant that could be used?
Becky
Answer:
Dear Becky
Filling the cracks with a non flexible wood putty almost always results in the putty cracking out. Wood moves with the change of indoor humidity and the dry hard putty filler does not. So when the wood is the narrowest in the middle of winter heating season, the putty falls out. Plank flooring is the most prone to this problem, the wider the plank the wider gap.
Next, as to wood in the bath, it really doesn’t belong there. This is a place of water spills and standing puddles (even in powder rooms), and a water proof floor like ceramic, cork or vinyl is much more suited for these areas. In fact I have seen such rotted wood around toilets, that I was afraid to sit down on this particular “throne”.
But if you must repair the floor instead of replacing it, here’s how. The gaps between the boards can be cleaned out with an awl and a vacuum cleaner. Squeeze in a latex filler, and expect to apply several coats to fill the gaps. If you are not sanding and refinishing the wood at this time you will have to keep the wood clean from filler, by wiping the wood with a wet then dry rag. Choose a filler color just a tad darker than the floors. Try the Le Pages band I use, at http://www.LePageproducts.com/products/detail.asp?catid=25x=56x=305 But expect even this stuff to pop out in just a few years, if you have big swings in your indoor humidity. At least it’s easy to replace. And you can let the last coat dry overnight and then apply a few coats of polyurethane on the gaps also. Keep the filler concave so the finish doesn’t run onto the wood.
Boat builders use all manor of more flexible seam sealers, but they cannot be coated with more finish and tend to have a strong smell. These would be available at a marine hardware store. I wouldn’t advise this though.
So now, as to fixing the rotted wood, it would be better to replace the pieces involved. It’s not such a big project, just have a read of my repair article, it’s free at https://www.woodfloordoctor.com/_how_tos/articles/repairconanddiy.shtml
But after reading this you still want to try to patch the wood without replacing it, I will continue. Make sure the rotted wood is not causing a structural problem, or causing more rot. Mold can form on rotten wet wood and cause health problems.
You can buy epoxy wood restoration kits at Lee Valley Tools, at http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.asp?SID=x=1x=20075x=1,190,42997 With this kit you can saturate the rotten wood so that it hardens. When you use the epoxy putty though you will have to stain and “grain” the putty after to get it to look more like real wood. This kit is expensive and will only do some small areas, so don’t use it on the whole floor. I also have had good results using the carvable wood filler when I have large gouges to fill. You might try this also at http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.asp?SID=x=1x=31064x=1,190,42997 You do have to dry out the wood before this stuff will work, and after all the “repairs” have been done, consider recoating the floor with additional coats of the same finish that is on there now. If you do not know what the floor finish is, do the tests suggested in this article (free)
https://www.woodfloordoctor.com/_how_tos/articles/cleanpt2.shtml
Oh, and there is one more solution to this gap problem and that is to take a manila or hemp rope and stain it with a normal wood stain that matches or is slightly darker than the floor tone. Let the stained rope dry overnight. Clean out the gaps as suggested before, and force the rope into the gaps with a putty knife. Don’t glue it into place !! Keep the rope below the surface of the wood. You can untwist a strand and cut off one of the sections, to form a thinner rope when the gap gets smaller. Rope of course, comes in all different sizes. You can then apply a few coats of floor finish over the rope and the floor, this will help it stay in better. The rope has better flexibility than the solid filler does. I just saw this on an “Ask This Old House” episode. But really I’ve heard it before, it’s an old trick.
Using Eastern Spruce With Equilibrium Moisture Content For Hardwood Floors
Question:
Love your site so far, don’t have time to go through everything yet………………………………. eastern white cedar inside 3/4 x 6 inch t maybe V groove, maybe round edge groove and staining clear or light brown with Minwax or Varathane. Have you ever heard of a Cedar floor?
I figure it is harder than Pine……….Please advise if not a problem.
When you are talking Cedar, I can understand your comments with Red Cedar but would this include Eastern White Cedar?…………
A lot of people seem to put cedar on walls and ceilings in cottages but I suppose this is ok? as you are not walking on them and they are finished????
Are there any other reasonable priced softwoods? How does Spruce compare? The quality is not there as far as I can tell and it yellows also, but not as bad as pine. We had a 27 foot wall ten feet high of pine in our condo we bought, and got so sick of it after two years.
Gary
Answer:
Dear Gary
Eastern White Cedar (Thuja occidentalis) is merely a sub-species of Western Red Cedar (Thuja plicata), and they both have the same lousy flooring properties. It’s acidic property will rust all but galvanized, stainless steel or copper nails on a deck. Yes, you can use it as an interior trim, and furniture and other light duty uses. But it will make for a very, very weak floor, as well as creating the dangerous dust like I said before.
Eastern Spruce is sometimes used as flooring (but generally sub-flooring) and there are three sub-species of Spruce (Picea spp.). This includes White, Red and Black Spruce, the Black being the most dense and White the least of the three. It’s only a little more durable than Eastern White Pine, but well selected lumber will have a straighter grain. You should have easy access to Red Spruce (Picea rubens) in Nova Scotia.
Seeing how you won’t be heating this space for long periods, be sure you use the screws and pegs, as outlined in the article. The cut nails won’t hold as well. The thicker plywood subfloor is needed to keep out moisture from below. Expect some gaps later on in the life of this floor, but make sure that it is truly kiln dried to the EMC (equilibrium moisture content) for INTERIOR WOOD in your area. A local cabinet making shop will know this. Home Depot people know almost squat, like you said.
One could always stain the Spruce interior floor if you wanted a more mellow aged look. But only if you followed the directions in my sanding and my staining articles, both well worth the read. And for really professional results when finishing the floor, the poly w/o bubbles article is priceless. Nobody has regretted buying these fine articles.
P.S. What article have you bought lately that included having an email discussion with the author?
As always your Most humble servant, Joseph, the Wood Floor Doctor.
Using DXO Odor Eliminator For Dog Urine On Hardwood Floors
Question:
I’m trying to decide between a prefinished floor and the one sanded and coated on-site. My main concern is that I have three dogs, and they occassionaly urinate on the floor. In which type of floor is the “accident” less likely to reach the subfloor (and therefore smell for a long time)? Do the cracks between planks seal better with the polyurethane applied after the installation is completed?
Thanks,
Victor
Answer:
Dear Victor
Oh, boy three dogs, that’s going to be a problem with any sort of hardwood floor. That’s a bit of a dilemma also, because the only finish that just might stand up to the claws of three dogs would be found in the polymerized titanium coating found on the expensive Lauzon hardwood floors http://www.lauzonltd.com. But then of course there is the problem with the many seams with prefinished and the pee will certainly go right between the boards. Urine will cause a stain on edges of the boards as it seeps into the wood. You could try to install such a floor and then apply at least two coats of an industrial coating on the floor before you even use it.
Go to http://www.basiccoatings.com and check out their Tycoat recoat system for prefinished floors. This is just about your only (expensive) option for getting their very durable Street Shoe coating to stick to this prefinished flooring. And even this is doubtful. But if this system works you would have the best of both worlds, and the two coating would seal the many open seams.
The other option would be to choose a narrow 2 1/4″ red oak or white oak strip floor and sand and finish it on site with a dark stain and at least 3 coats of an oil modified polyurethane. The dark stained wood will hide any future urine stains, and the 3 coats of poly is still the longest lasting most water resistant coating we have. Some of the new water and solvent based industrial finishes on new floors are problematic, in that they will cause the new wood to stick together and possibly panelize. And they are in general expensive and somewhat toxic to use (including Street Shoe). At least the oil based poly is somewhat cheaper, and is more easily and cheaply re-coated in the future.
Water based finishes tend to turn white or opaque after 5-10 years, so their longevity is somewhat in question. And water based finished will give your wood and somewhat plastic look, especially over a dark stain. I only mention them in the first paragraph, as this Tycoat recoat system HAS to be used with a water based coating.
If you HAVE to have a wood floor, I would choose the darkly stained sand-on-site floor option. Just follow the guidelines in my Poly without the Bubbles article, and you will (with some care) have a floor finish that will last about 30-40 years.
Be sure to read the first part of my floor maintenance article to learn how to clean the wood floor safely. And you might check out the Cleaning Center’s (web address in the article) DXO odor eliminator to remove any smells from the wood when accidents happen.
Unfortunately all these finishes will scratch, and you might be better served by a ceramic tile type of floor to be honest. Hardwood just might be more trouble than it’s worth.
Using Dri Tac To Repair Parquet Floors
Question:
thanks for your answer. please send me the info on the easy repair kits so that the parquet does not have to be removed. best to you.
Maurice
Answer:
Dear Maurice
You should only do this repair on the floor once it has settled into it’s original place. The older parquet may have adhesive that by now is failing. Real old block parquet (9″ by 9″ or larger) floors were glued in place with a tar like adhesive. If you have one of these floors, it will hold itself down just by the force of gravity. The interlocking tongue and groove will always keep in place as long as it doesn’t swell again. Try to keep the indoor relative humidity below about 60% this summer. But any left over hollow sounding areas can be spot glued with this kit:
Then go to Dri Tacs’s nifty web site at http://www.dritac.com/
Dri Tac makes a Wood Floor Repair System. It consists of a specially diluted 6200 adhesive, some drill bits, and some glue syringes. The idea is to drill two holes into the popping area and inject the glue so that it flows under the floor. When it dries it will have filled the void. All that remains is to repair the holes with the dowels provided and then putty the hole with a colored filler to match the wood. It can be used on most failed adhesives, and comes with really clear instructions.
As always your Most humble servant, Joseph, the Wood Floor Doctor.
Using Cat�s Paw To Remove Staples On Wood Floors
Question:
I just discovered hardwood floors in the home I purchased. They’re in good shape except for the previous owners stapled padding to the floor. What is the safest way for me to remove the staples without causing damage to the floor?
Thanks!
-Kim
Answer:
Dear Kim
I use a Lee Valley’s restorer’s cat’s paw at www.leevalley.com (prod. # A060K21.06). It will get under most of the staples and with its large surface prying against the wood, with care it shouldn’t harm the wood.
And for really stubborn staples, ones that have broken in half, I use the nail puller, Prod. # 64K02.01.
And if that just snaps some off, simply use a fine nail set to set the errant staple wire below the surface (prod. #=A023K17.01).
You can then fill all the little holes with a colored latex putty (#80K86.01), but be sure to wipe it off BEFORE it dries with a wet rag.
Using Bona Kemi Traffic On Bruce Wood Flooring
Question:
The flooring contractor and a Bruce rep. came out the other day. The Bruce guy poked around and was extremely quite. He told me that he couldn’t tell me anything, but that he would go back and write a full report to Bruce headquarters and that I would hear something back in the next two weeks. I’ve also had a few floor guys come out and tell me there opinions and they all seem to agree that Bruce has some responsibility for the poor quality of a lot of this product but that more than 50% of the areas we are complaining about are due to the installers. To much air (or not enough) in the staple gun?
I can’t remember exactly which it was. They say it’s the staples that are causing the edge splintering and finish cracking. The guy who has the best reputation around here wants to sand and refinish it with a water based product called “Bona Tech Traffic”. He is steering us in that direction becuase he feels it would be less disruptive to my household than ripping it all up and the baseboards, etc.. Is “Traffic” a product you’re familiar with? Do you think fighting for a partial refund and refinishing would be a mistake? I look forward to your honest opinion.
Marc
Answer:
Dear Marc
I’m quite sure that you should go for a full refund, and replace the whole floor. If if is a low grade of wood, you will have no end of troubles. I installed a common #2 grade oak floor in order to save the customer some money. When I went back 6 years later there were far too many of the floor boards were showing cracks in the surface. In this case it involved about 5-6 boards. I learned my lesson then and never used this type of wood gain.You see there are internal voids in lower grade oak, and your floor will only get worse over time.
That said, I would not have the floor just re-sanded, although the Bona Kemi Traffic product is a very durable commercial type finish. My only objection is that is makes for a very pale looking floor. If you do choose to refinish the floor with that finish be sure you see a job of his that is at least 5 years old. Most if not all water based finishes age in an unexpected way. If this is a dark stained floor to begin with, you will have to re-stain the floor when you resand. And the water based finish may not look so hot on a darker surface.
And as to the staples, you would not be able to see the damage done by over-pressured staple gun. That’s because the tongues would be cracked, and you can not see a tongue. It is hidden by the groove. The cracks at the surface were caused by the manufacturer using far too low a grade of wood. The cracked tongues will show up later as tilted and squeaky boards. They are not required to list grades of wood in prefinished floor according to their own trade association. The nation trade association of which Bruce belongs, states that because the wood is pre finished or stained, the grade cannot be determined, so they are exempt from the normal grade stamping that is on all my unfinished wood when I buy it.
Bruce can use any name they want like Natural to describe their wood, but there is nobody to oversee quality, except themselves. Talking about the fox-run hen house. So I would say stick it to Bruce, and have them issue you a full refund including about $2 per sq. ft. to remove and dispose of this substandard wood. And if you want come out even, the cost of accommodation. Only when consumers stand up for their rights will big companies learn their lessons and provide good products and good installation techniques.
Sorry to be such a rabble rouser, but that’s my nature when I see shoddy work.
As always your Most humble servant, Joseph, the Wood Floor Doctor.
Using Bona Kemi As A Wood Floor Treatment
Question:
My wife recently saw a very nice pine floor in Denmark whose owners told her that they finished it using “soap finishing flakes” rubbed into the floor, and showed her a bag of the flakes. Unfortunately, she did not get the brand name, but I am wondering if you have ever heard of this technique for finishing floors, or where I can find out more about it? I have asked around and tried the web, but have come up empty myself. Thanks very much for any clues you might give me.
Rich
Answer:
Dear Rich
No I haven’t heard of such a thing as soap finishing flakes. But many finish makers have tried to develop finishes and wood treatments that have little or no solvents in them (beats strict pollution laws), and this could be one such new material. Let me know if you remember a brand name, or anyone I could contact in Denmark who uses this product.
It also could be a waterless acrylic polish, but that’s a wild guess. And there are various refresher products made by Bona Kemi (www.bonakemi.com) that are more liquid, but like this.
Using Basic Coating’s Impact On Bleached Oak Floor
Question:
I have bleached oak floors that I want to have sanded and refinished. Two quotes were obtained. One swore by oil based the other by water based. What are the pros and cons? Are there major differences? Price? Thank you in advance for your attention to my question.
Answer:
Dear Laura
I’ve sworn at both types of finish. But you mentioned that you have bleached oak floors, and I presume that you want to keep them white in colour. In that case you really should use a water based finish. You should make sure that the contractor applies at least 4 coats of good quality finish as this material has a lower build than oil based finishes. I recommend the Dura Seal 2000 (800-364-1359) for it’s long lasting clarity, or Basic Coating’s Impact (800-247-5471) if you need exceptional durability, and the Bona Kemi product called Pacific One (303-371-1411). You really should call each manufacturer and get their lastest recomendation of just what stain to use with their finish, they are improving these finishes all the time. These are very expensive finishes and if I were to quote on sanding, white staining and applying 4 coats of water based finish, the price would be around $4 per square foot, as opposed to a dark stain and 3 coats of oil poly at $3.50.
Water based finishes are only about 10 years old and not all the contractors have adapted to their new application methods, so you might find lots of resistance out there. If it is a dark stain or just a clear blond finish you want by all means use the oil based urethane, the job will be less expensive and just as durable. But as oil based finishes age they will turn a yellow to orange cast, which would be really noticable on a white stian. If you choose the correct water based for clarity and durability you will have minimal ambering effect over the years, but call those numbers and get their current information.
As always your Most humble servant, Joseph, the Wood Floor Doctor.